Leaving biglaw for government. I’m wondering if it’s even .
Leaving biglaw for government Jeffrey Lowe, global practice leader and a managing partner, and Deborah Ben-Cannon, a senior practice leader at legal recruiting firm Major, Lindsey & Africa discuss how best to go about transitioning to a law firm or in-house corporate position. But there’s no secret here, imo, especially if you’re eyeing government (which I think is an underrated path on here). Expected to be ready to work whenever needed. I’ve seen a lot of people leave, and publicly it’s touted that they went in-house, chose to lateral, etc. Just getting tired of the big law job demands and needing to be available all the time. I'm inclined to take the job. Brutal unpredictability similar to investment banking jobs. Aside from the “damaged goods” thing, senior Biglaw lawyers are also harder to recruit because they get sticker shock at the in house salary when they’ve been making Biglaw rate for so long. Get out now. I worked in an AG's office where it seemed 50% of the attorneys were biglaw refugees. In-house at a F100 manufacturing company doing regulatory work (environmental & safety mostly). In retrospect (and in my opinion/experience) it is never too early to get out of biglaw. Of course, there's a big salary cut involved, and only you can know whether the financial tradeoff makes sense for I’m admittedly just a few months into the new gig, but this is still all very alarming for me, and has me for the first time thinking in earnest about leaving the law. Consulting: big boys like McKinsey generally offer high $100s to low $200s with the promise of 75% biglaw hours - “usually done by 630/7” and “not many weekends”. Second, a huge number Maybe sticking it out in biglaw makes it easier to transition to government, since they can trust the reputation of a big firm and may not trust the reputation of an unknown in Overview of How to Leave BigLaw. Second, a huge number exit into corporations where they start with an at or near 6 figure salary + bonus + growth opportunity. The hiring process is even slower than most people expect, and “[b]etween hiring freezes, background checks, and the bureaucratic nature of the government interview process,” she noted, “it could take up to a Does anyone regret leaving biglaw or have the experience of working in government/boutique and deciding to return to biglaw? If so, when and why did you leave biglaw, and what did you not like about where you went/what did you come to appreciate about being in biglaw? I ask as a junior attorney feeling overwhelmed by the demanding hours of Whether government lawyers will rejoin their past firms is top of mind in some white-collar defense practices, as more lawyers seek to leave office for private practice. It is important because it can be easy to believe that leaving won’t be better, but with these examples, more lawyers can see that they should not endure a toxic environment and that leaving the law is okay. For a third-fifth year, nabbing a position in house at 250-300k total comp is an awesome outcome. You're at an advantage to the extent you know you want to do this several years from now (as opposed to being forced to leave biglaw with less notice). I’ve been in practice for 3 years and am considering switching due to finances and emotional burnout. If you have a job offer in hand from the federal government and want to ultimately work in the federal government take the job offer. Leaving govt back to biglaw? TLDR: am I crazy to be considering leaving the USDOJ (at a USAO) to go back to biglaw or midlaw if I’m about a decade from my earliest possible retirement? I jumped from biglaw to the government after 5 years of practice for quality of life reasons. As President Donald Trump targets one leading law firm after another, WilmerHale has turned to Clement – a There are more involuntary departures than most realize. I agree leaving the law isn't required and they can get better at some stuff and get faster. I do not have a S/O. The money that biglaw provides also helps you break into hobbies that require upfront investment. Understanding the timing of hiring cycles, especially In the weeks since I announced this plan, I’ve been repeatedly asked why I’m leaving BigLaw to go solo. But for many attorneys, government practice will be just one phase of a longer, multifaceted I am thinking about leaving big law soon. , compliance)? Leaving was the right thing for me. Anonymous User Posts: 431940 Joined: Tue Aug 11 Now Paul Clement is stepping into a delicate new role: Big Law’s big lawyer. The Government Investigation and Civil Litigation Institute (GICLI) celebrated its 10th Annual Meeting with a fireside chat between Torridon Law founder and former Attorney General William Barr In-house, like you said, which encompasses a lot of roles. Anonymous User Posts: 431889 Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 2:32 pm. I have low 5 figs in the bank from my biglaw salary and not a single dime of debt. Re: Post-Biglaw Regrets? Post by Anonymous User » Sat Feb 27, 2021 10:31 am Anonymous wrote:Current job: great gig at DOJ, true 40 hour weeks (rarely ever nights/weekends), but full-time in-person requirement, which means I'm gone 10+ hours everyday. We sat down with our budget and figured out that we could make it work, though it would require some doable lifestyle adjustments. She served on the For a government job, the pay is good, but, of course, it pays about half of what I currently make. I imagine if you're looking to leave biglaw forever (which I am), it really doesn't matter whether you were there for 4 months or a year. I’m wondering if it’s even I did a year at a NYC BigLaw right out of law school. On the contrary, it takes courage to leave biglaw or, more generally, to make a career move. For example, if you rage quit, Because I live in the Washington, DC area, many people jump to the federal government. I left for a position in the government less than a year ago and I do not regret it. You know what I sometimes miss about Biglaw? The fanciness. Reply reply Top 2% Rank by size . Anonymous. Federal Government: tops out $160k unless you’re SES which can be occasional biglaw hours but still less than first year salary. Former colleague of mine quit biglaw after about 4 or 5 years, just enough time to pay off his student loans and bank maybe $100k in savings, then took a 2 year sabbatical living frugally but also not doing any real work and just hanging out and decompressing. At this stage, my ideal post-biglaw world includes working at three agencies and this is one of them, albeit in a slightly different role. I have interviews set up with a But as always, associates are still leaving Big Law for business, the government, and nonprofits. But if you don’t want to be in Texas there are other BigLaw markets that also feature savings over NYC: cost of living is 35% lower in DC, 37% lower in LA, 37% lower in Boston, and 50% lower in Chicago (basically SF is the only major BigLaw market that is just as insanely expensive as NYC) and with the exception of LA, all of those places have lower taxes (though not the zero taxes of The most important thing would be to try and make the transition as seamless as possible with the firm you are leaving. I went from Big Law to Government to In House to Big Law partner - every step of the way someone called me crazy and told me how I was failing. Subject: Leaving private practice for government job. If you work in biglaw for 6 years and then go clerk, I think the bigger question mark is going to be why are you leaving a firm around the time you’d be getting ready to go up for partner to go work in a judges chamber (where at that point, in might not be a useful experience). First, I’ve been disabused of the The transition from a federal government position to BigLaw (or any new sector) requires strategic planning and patience. The majority of associates will have left for a smaller firm, in-house, or government (either because they no longer wanted to be in biglaw, or they were counseled out). News Big Law Turns to Government Talent for White-Collar Defense, National Security Practices Skadden, Cleary Gottlieb and Squire Patton Boggs all announced partner hires this week in Washington The general consensus seems to be that government work, midlaw, nonprofits and the like are the most common exits, but these all come with a significant pay cut, sometimes for about the same amount of work. You could easily do those kinds of hours from time to time at a much lower salaried job One started doing IT for the government. I meant that none of the suff they dislike is going to change (it doesn't get easier). Tomorrow I'm going to give notice at my BigLaw job. So many people working in Biglaw hate Biglaw. Granted, the title is about leaving lit altogether, but still, the fact that the government is a repeat player with a much different lifestyle does have an impact on tone/attitude/general tenor. And they left at all different times-so leaving after one year wasn't a problem, and the credentials that got you into biglaw in the first place were highly valued. But also places like USAtty offices, federal agencies, medium-large nonprofits. Total comp including bonuses, pension, 401k match is mid-level associate in biglaw, but in a small, LCOL city. I should add that moving back and forth between law firms and other organizations is certainly not the only way to have a BL career, or any fulfilling legal career for that matter, but it seems somewhat common among people at the top firms. And in some areas, once you become an experienced regulator, big firms may actually want to hire I am a junior biglaw associate (~class of 2012/2013) and have an opportunity to jump to a federal agency in a field that I've partly specialized in. It's a shame big law attorneys leave law without trying normal law. That was just over 10 years ago. Lots of people leave big law for the government, and most people I know who did that are much, much happier with their work/life balance and general work in government. • • Edited . These are good jobs, but it’s not necessarily the dream. I'm 27 with no family. I don't need much money, but I do want to be able to return to full time practice later when my kids are older (otherwise I would just SAH). Jeremiah Frei-Pearson left a successful BigLaw career to work at a public interest firm and has most recently co-founded a small plaintiffs' firm. The people were insufferable. Before you plan to leave BigLaw or another law firm job, you need to carefully consider the pitfalls of quitting. Although the compensation is less, my mental health is significantly better. I am thinking about leaving big law (mid level; transactional) to work in a government position my main issues are of course the pay (235K to 100-130K) but also this feeling that I’d eventually regret it and would be letting myself down. One more went to teach legal writing at a law school. r/Lawyertalk. Government practice enables attorneys to improve public policy and promote justice, contributing directly to our collective well-being. Quitting after 3 months of 200+ hours is pretty weak, and I love hating on biglaw. Obviously, the money is difficult to fully replace, and I'm trying to save as much as I can. I never have to work weekends or during my vacation and rarely work beyond 5PM. The kinds of outsider jobs that do routinely lateral to BigLaw during normal markets tend to be just as competitive to get if not more. While the paycheck is nice, and acts as golden handcuffs keeping folks tied to a job that otherwise makes them miserable, some people yearn for work Sarah chose these episodes because they show how both good and bad it can be to work in a Biglaw firm, and how great it can be to leave that environment behind. I’m really glad I left. Odd that the poll says "leaving biglaw lit" but does not include government lit, which is a totally different vibe in many ways from biglaw lit. Anonymous wrote: Anonymous wrote: Anonymous wrote: Anonymous wrote:I just did this move - biglaw senior associate to gov't - about 7 months ago. BigLaw . For example, an experienced federal prosecutor will have an easier time finding a job Looking to leave after 6 years, but not sure of next steps -- government, in-house, etc. This is not a comprehensive guide to quitting BigLaw or your law firm job – just things to think about. Props for having the discipline to pay it off. No night or weekends generally and have a lot of freedom. Wait to see if you actually make partner. Leave --senior biglaw associate up for partner next year report. The reality is that most lawyers work at firms of 10 or fewer lawyers, according to 2016 statistics on law firms from the Federation of Law Societies of Canada. Response 1 of 3: In my practice, people come back from in-house all the time, especially from a senior associate exit back to partnership. I've been struggling with how long to stay. (And by that, I don’t mean that the pay at a biglaw shop isn’t great — it is, and you’ll be hard-pressed to find a job that matches the salary if you leave — but imo it’s not worth the . However, Big Law is only a small part of the legal industry equation, albeit a substantial one in terms of billings. You can generally leave the government and go private later, depending on the area of law. I’m more challenged MidW13 wrote:I'll keep it short and sweet. You’ll be fine. What is typical pay for someone leaving biglaw after 3-5 years? Subject: Did you feel better about yourself after leaving Biglaw? quote. I left bc I wasn't going to make partner and didn't have too much of a choice and I needed to move cities and get to DC for life I lasted about that long in Biglaw (maybe it was nine months?) and it was also health issues that forced me to leave. He ended up finding a government lawyer job that he seems to like, and has been Anonymous wrote:Off the bat, I'm pretty sure the answer is not federal government. But if you pick up a fun activity or hobby you not only feel accomplished as you get better/more knowledgable in it, but also you stop worrying as much about work if you're really invested in Response 1 of 1: You have to find a job that’s suitable to your abilities for any chance at success and happiness. I'd hate to get stuck doing basic work for mediocre managers, even if the hours are better. Understanding the timing of hiring cycles, especially in BigLaw, can make Learn how to develop a plan to exit Biglaw and transition to a new career. mid-level associate to a government job. My only slight regret is that I didn't use my firm contacts to explore other government jobs (political appointments) during this administration. Let’s say you leave and your household income is +/- $300K you should’ve able to easily contribute regularly to a 529. A place for lawyers to talk about lawyer things with other lawyers. Has anyone else been in this situation? Do you regret leaving biglaw? Re: Leave Biglaw for Government Job? « Reply #50 on: March 09, 2017, 08:53:05 AM » A potential government route to FI that either complements or doesn't involve a pension: a 457 plan , which is killer for FIRE purposes. Quit BigLaw for PSLF. This means you have time to ferret away some of the biglaw salary and adjust to living on more limited means. Comparing savings rate/compensation patterns now to my biglaw time is apples-to-oranges. Also, any thoughts on quasi-legal roles (e. Given the strength of my practice area, and the work That doesn't make us failures imho. My agency did decide not to hire a couple 6th year transactional attorney in NYC - OP, your experience in-house is unfortunately why I've been hesitant to leave BigLaw. I feel you 100% when it seems like you're just sitting around waiting for that next email. Trump issued an executive order last Tuesday, the day after his inauguration, seeking to end "illegal discrimination" in favor of "restoring merit-based opportunity" in government and the private Am now back in Biglaw as a partner and doing well, thanks in large part to the government experience. God bless the revolving door. Four former Big Law associates told Insider Lots of Biglaw associates leave for non-Biglaw opportunities that sound really good, but end up being limiting or undesirable in some way. I intend to give only 2 weeks notice because I really don't have much to "wrap up" but I'm willing to be flexible if they want me to stay longer (which I doubt, my boss hates me and I think will be happy to see me go). I've already decided that I hate law, I hate where I live, and since I have no obligations I can go anywhere. I meant leave biglaw. 12/20/2016 08:15. As others have said, your main issue will be finding it hard to give up $225-500k per year, although if you save/invest wisely you can have a good cushion under you before you leave. Conclusion – Plan to Leave BigLaw. It's all theoretical at this point. I just meant it sounds like big law isn't for this person (hates it, abnormally bad reviews, etc. Edit: Working for a government would also be a difference - low pay in return for a reasonable lifestyle. I understand that leaving the biglaw bubble will entail a pay cut in all but the absolute best case, unicorn scenario. Sorry to be a downer but big law can get really tough to land even at 15-25, beyond that you’re going to have to be absolutely on top of your game, focus on markets your school has the best relationships with (probably local), and cast a wide net. You may not like what I’m saying but it’s the truth. (roughly), what your takehome is annually Anyone who thinks they can predict your career path based on a single data point is not to be trusted with complex decision making. I was thinking student loans paid off and ~250k in assets before I felt comfortable leaving. Until the loan payment hiatus ends, I'd advise leaving the remaining 50k alone for now, and build up savings worth at least 6 months living costs for an emergency. It was terrible. I am looking to move states and am open to another big law firm, but I want to see what else is out there in terms of government jobs, in house, etc. I was burned out by this administration, before which I didn’t expect to ever leave government. Many times the skills that a government attorney has acquired from experience on important cases will be the determining factor for firms to consider him or her. report. Subject: Re:Leaving biglaw. Let’s say Jason wants to leave BigLaw, but he’s only going to do it for an employer that would qualify for PSLF, be more fulfilling and give him a better quality of life where he’d be working less hours. Transactional: more likely to grind out 3-5 years and look for an exit. First, I’ve been As for after leaving biglaw, that's just objectively false. Response 1 of 25: I left a federal job for a large boutique that competes with BigLaw for clients and pays on the same scale. It takes serious I left biglaw for the government after 6 years (wasn't willing to kill myself to make partner then keep killing myself to become an equity partner). Federal Government Law v. Your salary and bonuses will only go higher in biglaw, and coming out of a V10 in-house offers will be lucrative. I ended up leaving and moving to a 40 lawyer firm in the midwest. Just dump a large amount in before leaving big law and then continue a few thousand a year and the growth will do the rest. As someone who came from biglaw and now works in the fed government, I’d never go back to big law. where did you people who left big law start your job search? Just feeling aimless. Hi all, I'm a federal government lawyer in a highly sought-after regulatory practice in DC. It might take a different office, or different type of law altogether, but please try not to blame yourself - biglaw sucks! Going a full 8 years in biglaw is well above average. g. Hi all, Looking for some advice on how to make the transition from government practice (prosecution) to big law. Sep 25, 2024 Back to school, Back to the job search Response 1 of 53: Eight years in biglaw, I don’t miss it at all. Leaving Federal Government for BigLaw With the recent election concluded, albeit with some remaining uncertainty, one thing is clear: significant shifts are on the horizon at the federal level. How much would your net worth have to be to feel financially comfortable to leave biglaw and head to a lesser paying job? 4th year NYC associate here. BigLaw only opens doors to practice areas that you gain experience in, which does not include areas like criminal law, family law, labour law, immigration law, many government jobs, legal aid, non-profits, etc. 12/20/2016 09:53. Open to suggestions. But I don’t think most orgs are that elitist (especially if you’re talking about the government side) so unless you have a specific org in mind that specifically does that, I wouldn’t worry. HELP: Government to Big Law . Few are fired outright but many are told to go before it gets there. Best career decision I ever made. I spent 3 years in "small law" and just over 1 year in biglaw before leaving the legal world entirely. As for after leaving biglaw, that's just objectively false. I'm never leaving. It was a great decision and the huge salary cut was worth it to me. Dude just focus on getting any biglaw job you can get—maybe even in a market you want to live. I moved to overseas government work and I couldn't be happier. Keep in mind that entry total comp numbers for in-house positions are just that, the starting point. First, many people leave one big firm and wind up at another with the same or better salary. A stint in public service is attractive to many lawyers. Members Online • BarPrepQueen . And looking around at my practice group, I could see that most of the successful partners had spent time in government. In reality, if you’re already thinking of quitting However, government hiring can dry up depending on the agency and budgetary constraints. Some of those even start above 160. DC is a "leave to succeed" type of place. Two or three more years would put me in a really good place financially. Worked there for 2 years, and was recruited by a regional "BigLaw" firm in the area, considered to be the top firm in town. I have 3 kids and need a lot more flexibility on school days than fed litigators have. I’m a baby attorney, late 20s, working in a major market who is thinking of leaving local (somewhat prestigious, lowish paid in high COLA) government. Attorneys working in government often consider leaving for private-sector opportunities. I think this is a reasonable topic to address. Main exit seems to be government, with a smaller group going to academia or in-house. Edit: lol @ the downvotes. If you leave for a government or in The transition from a federal government position to BigLaw (or any new sector) requires strategic planning and patience. I work with lots of attorneys that make the same total comp as 5th-6th years in biglaw, my VP and GC make astronomically more. Subject: I need to leave biglaw I didn't have to make a financial sacrifice to leave biglaw. I work roughly 40-45 hours per week. The Tax analyst role in IRS’ LB&A is interesting to me. He got a job offer working for the government that will pay him $80,000 per year with 3% raises each year. r/biglaw. Also had a vicious senior associate "mentor," who took turns ignoring me when I asked questions and making sure that I was up until 2am every night for a week because she insisted that was the only time she could talk about the work she gave me. The moment she realized that Biglaw was not for her (it involves a less-than-enthusiastic response to a ruling Response 1 of 21: Anyone who thinks they can predict your career path based on a single data point is not to be trusted with complex decision making. For attorneys currently in federal government roles, this period of change might be an ideal opportunity to reassess and possibly transition your career. I also know that So to answer your question—very normal to feel this way. I think people overly glamorize in-house positions on this forum. Unlike 99% of the commenters, I am an actual BigLaw lawyer involved with recruiting at a BigLaw firm. , while in reality they were told to leave. What skills/certifications do they value in those positions in their hiring process? Leaving federal government for BigLaw Nov 7, 2024 Increase in lateral corporate associate hiring? It's "when," not "if". I'm sorry if I wasn't clear. quote. Re: Biglaw Exit to Inhouse/Government Interview Question - Why are you leaving? Post by Anonymous User » Tue May 25, 2021 6:27 pm If you’re an ex-banker/ consultant/ engineer going to a related company, tell them you were always intending to come back. Job offer: $75k more in base salary (although health insurance will be much more expensive), 1560 billable target ("part-time" BigLaw), mostly remote, great flexibility other than the Planning to leave Biglaw after a few years for some sort of government job, but never pursuing the plan. For those in government, is it difficult to land a position without a CPA? Currently have 3 years in PA, tax senior, Enrolled agent & MST and looking to leave PA next year. Top. In the weeks since I announced this plan, I’ve been repeatedly asked why I’m leaving BigLaw to go solo. I’m getting paid a ton more than I was at GS-15, and I actually feel valued and respected by my superiors and clients. Edit to also say I plan to go in house once I kinda But Hosid (who’s now a career coach at Vinik EPS) cautioned, “you can’t wait until you are ready to leave Biglaw to start” applying to the government. If you're talking about the federal government, you'd be coming in at around 130 Go to biglaw r/biglaw. I’d confidently say that if I could work a full time telework job that capped at even GS14, I would never leave. For Women, Leaving Big Law for a Midsize Firm Doesn't Mean Settling and municipal matters, and frequently advises clients on public policy and government-relations strategy. ). We at Vault focus mainly on the life of lawyers at large and midsize law firms, but many law grads decide to work for the government, in a small firm, or as a solo practitioner. Moreover, my fed agency allows telework only twice a week. More posts you may like r/Lawyertalk. If you hate it, you can always leave and be fine because biglaw opens so many doors. I’m admittedly just a few months into the new gig, but this is still all very alarming for me, and has me for the first time thinking in earnest about leaving the law. I still feel it sometimes but then I realized this weekend I 1) play tennis with my husband best friend and her fiancé 2) baked a cobbler 3) shopped at the farmers market 4) made every meal and cappuccino I wanted/needed from scratch and 5) felt no shame in leaving work at 6 every day to workout. Ignore at your own peril. Many female lawyers have been leaving big law firms to seek jobs with mid-size firms, in-house legal departments or government agencies, seeking less punishing hours and more flexible workplaces. FWIW I’m also at GS14 in a high COL area (CA). As anyone who reads this blog already knows, I just recently said goodbye to BigLaw to launch my own solo law practice. I'm going to a competitor. I graduated magna from a T-50 law school and am considering going to biglaw. vdhxnyxzoxwluvujhusbbvqffjfymnptgktimhsvnqdprapujtseufgmcwzjmexdrbavvfatrkrr
Leaving biglaw for government Jeffrey Lowe, global practice leader and a managing partner, and Deborah Ben-Cannon, a senior practice leader at legal recruiting firm Major, Lindsey & Africa discuss how best to go about transitioning to a law firm or in-house corporate position. But there’s no secret here, imo, especially if you’re eyeing government (which I think is an underrated path on here). Expected to be ready to work whenever needed. I’ve seen a lot of people leave, and publicly it’s touted that they went in-house, chose to lateral, etc. Just getting tired of the big law job demands and needing to be available all the time. I'm inclined to take the job. Brutal unpredictability similar to investment banking jobs. Aside from the “damaged goods” thing, senior Biglaw lawyers are also harder to recruit because they get sticker shock at the in house salary when they’ve been making Biglaw rate for so long. Get out now. I worked in an AG's office where it seemed 50% of the attorneys were biglaw refugees. In-house at a F100 manufacturing company doing regulatory work (environmental & safety mostly). In retrospect (and in my opinion/experience) it is never too early to get out of biglaw. Of course, there's a big salary cut involved, and only you can know whether the financial tradeoff makes sense for I’m admittedly just a few months into the new gig, but this is still all very alarming for me, and has me for the first time thinking in earnest about leaving the law. Consulting: big boys like McKinsey generally offer high $100s to low $200s with the promise of 75% biglaw hours - “usually done by 630/7” and “not many weekends”. Second, a huge number Maybe sticking it out in biglaw makes it easier to transition to government, since they can trust the reputation of a big firm and may not trust the reputation of an unknown in Overview of How to Leave BigLaw. Second, a huge number exit into corporations where they start with an at or near 6 figure salary + bonus + growth opportunity. The hiring process is even slower than most people expect, and “[b]etween hiring freezes, background checks, and the bureaucratic nature of the government interview process,” she noted, “it could take up to a Does anyone regret leaving biglaw or have the experience of working in government/boutique and deciding to return to biglaw? If so, when and why did you leave biglaw, and what did you not like about where you went/what did you come to appreciate about being in biglaw? I ask as a junior attorney feeling overwhelmed by the demanding hours of Whether government lawyers will rejoin their past firms is top of mind in some white-collar defense practices, as more lawyers seek to leave office for private practice. It is important because it can be easy to believe that leaving won’t be better, but with these examples, more lawyers can see that they should not endure a toxic environment and that leaving the law is okay. For a third-fifth year, nabbing a position in house at 250-300k total comp is an awesome outcome. You're at an advantage to the extent you know you want to do this several years from now (as opposed to being forced to leave biglaw with less notice). I’ve been in practice for 3 years and am considering switching due to finances and emotional burnout. If you have a job offer in hand from the federal government and want to ultimately work in the federal government take the job offer. Leaving govt back to biglaw? TLDR: am I crazy to be considering leaving the USDOJ (at a USAO) to go back to biglaw or midlaw if I’m about a decade from my earliest possible retirement? I jumped from biglaw to the government after 5 years of practice for quality of life reasons. As President Donald Trump targets one leading law firm after another, WilmerHale has turned to Clement – a There are more involuntary departures than most realize. I agree leaving the law isn't required and they can get better at some stuff and get faster. I do not have a S/O. The money that biglaw provides also helps you break into hobbies that require upfront investment. Understanding the timing of hiring cycles, especially In the weeks since I announced this plan, I’ve been repeatedly asked why I’m leaving BigLaw to go solo. But for many attorneys, government practice will be just one phase of a longer, multifaceted I am thinking about leaving big law soon. , compliance)? Leaving was the right thing for me. Anonymous User Posts: 431940 Joined: Tue Aug 11 Now Paul Clement is stepping into a delicate new role: Big Law’s big lawyer. The Government Investigation and Civil Litigation Institute (GICLI) celebrated its 10th Annual Meeting with a fireside chat between Torridon Law founder and former Attorney General William Barr In-house, like you said, which encompasses a lot of roles. Anonymous User Posts: 431889 Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 2:32 pm. I have low 5 figs in the bank from my biglaw salary and not a single dime of debt. Re: Post-Biglaw Regrets? Post by Anonymous User » Sat Feb 27, 2021 10:31 am Anonymous wrote:Current job: great gig at DOJ, true 40 hour weeks (rarely ever nights/weekends), but full-time in-person requirement, which means I'm gone 10+ hours everyday. We sat down with our budget and figured out that we could make it work, though it would require some doable lifestyle adjustments. She served on the For a government job, the pay is good, but, of course, it pays about half of what I currently make. I imagine if you're looking to leave biglaw forever (which I am), it really doesn't matter whether you were there for 4 months or a year. I’m wondering if it’s even I did a year at a NYC BigLaw right out of law school. On the contrary, it takes courage to leave biglaw or, more generally, to make a career move. For example, if you rage quit, Because I live in the Washington, DC area, many people jump to the federal government. I left for a position in the government less than a year ago and I do not regret it. You know what I sometimes miss about Biglaw? The fanciness. Reply reply Top 2% Rank by size . Anonymous. Federal Government: tops out $160k unless you’re SES which can be occasional biglaw hours but still less than first year salary. Former colleague of mine quit biglaw after about 4 or 5 years, just enough time to pay off his student loans and bank maybe $100k in savings, then took a 2 year sabbatical living frugally but also not doing any real work and just hanging out and decompressing. At this stage, my ideal post-biglaw world includes working at three agencies and this is one of them, albeit in a slightly different role. I have interviews set up with a But as always, associates are still leaving Big Law for business, the government, and nonprofits. But if you don’t want to be in Texas there are other BigLaw markets that also feature savings over NYC: cost of living is 35% lower in DC, 37% lower in LA, 37% lower in Boston, and 50% lower in Chicago (basically SF is the only major BigLaw market that is just as insanely expensive as NYC) and with the exception of LA, all of those places have lower taxes (though not the zero taxes of The most important thing would be to try and make the transition as seamless as possible with the firm you are leaving. I went from Big Law to Government to In House to Big Law partner - every step of the way someone called me crazy and told me how I was failing. Subject: Leaving private practice for government job. If you work in biglaw for 6 years and then go clerk, I think the bigger question mark is going to be why are you leaving a firm around the time you’d be getting ready to go up for partner to go work in a judges chamber (where at that point, in might not be a useful experience). First, I’ve been disabused of the The transition from a federal government position to BigLaw (or any new sector) requires strategic planning and patience. The majority of associates will have left for a smaller firm, in-house, or government (either because they no longer wanted to be in biglaw, or they were counseled out). News Big Law Turns to Government Talent for White-Collar Defense, National Security Practices Skadden, Cleary Gottlieb and Squire Patton Boggs all announced partner hires this week in Washington The general consensus seems to be that government work, midlaw, nonprofits and the like are the most common exits, but these all come with a significant pay cut, sometimes for about the same amount of work. You could easily do those kinds of hours from time to time at a much lower salaried job One started doing IT for the government. I meant that none of the suff they dislike is going to change (it doesn't get easier). Tomorrow I'm going to give notice at my BigLaw job. So many people working in Biglaw hate Biglaw. Granted, the title is about leaving lit altogether, but still, the fact that the government is a repeat player with a much different lifestyle does have an impact on tone/attitude/general tenor. And they left at all different times-so leaving after one year wasn't a problem, and the credentials that got you into biglaw in the first place were highly valued. But also places like USAtty offices, federal agencies, medium-large nonprofits. Total comp including bonuses, pension, 401k match is mid-level associate in biglaw, but in a small, LCOL city. I should add that moving back and forth between law firms and other organizations is certainly not the only way to have a BL career, or any fulfilling legal career for that matter, but it seems somewhat common among people at the top firms. And in some areas, once you become an experienced regulator, big firms may actually want to hire I am a junior biglaw associate (~class of 2012/2013) and have an opportunity to jump to a federal agency in a field that I've partly specialized in. It's a shame big law attorneys leave law without trying normal law. That was just over 10 years ago. Lots of people leave big law for the government, and most people I know who did that are much, much happier with their work/life balance and general work in government. • • Edited . These are good jobs, but it’s not necessarily the dream. I'm 27 with no family. I don't need much money, but I do want to be able to return to full time practice later when my kids are older (otherwise I would just SAH). Jeremiah Frei-Pearson left a successful BigLaw career to work at a public interest firm and has most recently co-founded a small plaintiffs' firm. The people were insufferable. Before you plan to leave BigLaw or another law firm job, you need to carefully consider the pitfalls of quitting. Although the compensation is less, my mental health is significantly better. I am thinking about leaving big law (mid level; transactional) to work in a government position my main issues are of course the pay (235K to 100-130K) but also this feeling that I’d eventually regret it and would be letting myself down. One more went to teach legal writing at a law school. r/Lawyertalk. Government practice enables attorneys to improve public policy and promote justice, contributing directly to our collective well-being. Quitting after 3 months of 200+ hours is pretty weak, and I love hating on biglaw. Obviously, the money is difficult to fully replace, and I'm trying to save as much as I can. I never have to work weekends or during my vacation and rarely work beyond 5PM. The kinds of outsider jobs that do routinely lateral to BigLaw during normal markets tend to be just as competitive to get if not more. While the paycheck is nice, and acts as golden handcuffs keeping folks tied to a job that otherwise makes them miserable, some people yearn for work Sarah chose these episodes because they show how both good and bad it can be to work in a Biglaw firm, and how great it can be to leave that environment behind. I’m really glad I left. Odd that the poll says "leaving biglaw lit" but does not include government lit, which is a totally different vibe in many ways from biglaw lit. Anonymous wrote: Anonymous wrote: Anonymous wrote: Anonymous wrote:I just did this move - biglaw senior associate to gov't - about 7 months ago. BigLaw . For example, an experienced federal prosecutor will have an easier time finding a job Looking to leave after 6 years, but not sure of next steps -- government, in-house, etc. This is not a comprehensive guide to quitting BigLaw or your law firm job – just things to think about. Props for having the discipline to pay it off. No night or weekends generally and have a lot of freedom. Wait to see if you actually make partner. Leave --senior biglaw associate up for partner next year report. The reality is that most lawyers work at firms of 10 or fewer lawyers, according to 2016 statistics on law firms from the Federation of Law Societies of Canada. Response 1 of 3: In my practice, people come back from in-house all the time, especially from a senior associate exit back to partnership. I've been struggling with how long to stay. (And by that, I don’t mean that the pay at a biglaw shop isn’t great — it is, and you’ll be hard-pressed to find a job that matches the salary if you leave — but imo it’s not worth the . However, Big Law is only a small part of the legal industry equation, albeit a substantial one in terms of billings. You can generally leave the government and go private later, depending on the area of law. I’m more challenged MidW13 wrote:I'll keep it short and sweet. You’ll be fine. What is typical pay for someone leaving biglaw after 3-5 years? Subject: Did you feel better about yourself after leaving Biglaw? quote. I left bc I wasn't going to make partner and didn't have too much of a choice and I needed to move cities and get to DC for life I lasted about that long in Biglaw (maybe it was nine months?) and it was also health issues that forced me to leave. He ended up finding a government lawyer job that he seems to like, and has been Anonymous wrote:Off the bat, I'm pretty sure the answer is not federal government. But if you pick up a fun activity or hobby you not only feel accomplished as you get better/more knowledgable in it, but also you stop worrying as much about work if you're really invested in Response 1 of 1: You have to find a job that’s suitable to your abilities for any chance at success and happiness. I'd hate to get stuck doing basic work for mediocre managers, even if the hours are better. Understanding the timing of hiring cycles, especially in BigLaw, can make Learn how to develop a plan to exit Biglaw and transition to a new career. mid-level associate to a government job. My only slight regret is that I didn't use my firm contacts to explore other government jobs (political appointments) during this administration. Let’s say you leave and your household income is +/- $300K you should’ve able to easily contribute regularly to a 529. A place for lawyers to talk about lawyer things with other lawyers. Has anyone else been in this situation? Do you regret leaving biglaw? Re: Leave Biglaw for Government Job? « Reply #50 on: March 09, 2017, 08:53:05 AM » A potential government route to FI that either complements or doesn't involve a pension: a 457 plan , which is killer for FIRE purposes. Quit BigLaw for PSLF. This means you have time to ferret away some of the biglaw salary and adjust to living on more limited means. Comparing savings rate/compensation patterns now to my biglaw time is apples-to-oranges. Also, any thoughts on quasi-legal roles (e. Given the strength of my practice area, and the work That doesn't make us failures imho. My agency did decide not to hire a couple 6th year transactional attorney in NYC - OP, your experience in-house is unfortunately why I've been hesitant to leave BigLaw. I feel you 100% when it seems like you're just sitting around waiting for that next email. Trump issued an executive order last Tuesday, the day after his inauguration, seeking to end "illegal discrimination" in favor of "restoring merit-based opportunity" in government and the private Am now back in Biglaw as a partner and doing well, thanks in large part to the government experience. God bless the revolving door. Four former Big Law associates told Insider Lots of Biglaw associates leave for non-Biglaw opportunities that sound really good, but end up being limiting or undesirable in some way. I intend to give only 2 weeks notice because I really don't have much to "wrap up" but I'm willing to be flexible if they want me to stay longer (which I doubt, my boss hates me and I think will be happy to see me go). I've already decided that I hate law, I hate where I live, and since I have no obligations I can go anywhere. I meant leave biglaw. 12/20/2016 08:15. As others have said, your main issue will be finding it hard to give up $225-500k per year, although if you save/invest wisely you can have a good cushion under you before you leave. Conclusion – Plan to Leave BigLaw. It's all theoretical at this point. I just meant it sounds like big law isn't for this person (hates it, abnormally bad reviews, etc. Edit: Working for a government would also be a difference - low pay in return for a reasonable lifestyle. I understand that leaving the biglaw bubble will entail a pay cut in all but the absolute best case, unicorn scenario. Sorry to be a downer but big law can get really tough to land even at 15-25, beyond that you’re going to have to be absolutely on top of your game, focus on markets your school has the best relationships with (probably local), and cast a wide net. You may not like what I’m saying but it’s the truth. (roughly), what your takehome is annually Anyone who thinks they can predict your career path based on a single data point is not to be trusted with complex decision making. I was thinking student loans paid off and ~250k in assets before I felt comfortable leaving. Until the loan payment hiatus ends, I'd advise leaving the remaining 50k alone for now, and build up savings worth at least 6 months living costs for an emergency. It was terrible. I am looking to move states and am open to another big law firm, but I want to see what else is out there in terms of government jobs, in house, etc. I was burned out by this administration, before which I didn’t expect to ever leave government. Many times the skills that a government attorney has acquired from experience on important cases will be the determining factor for firms to consider him or her. report. Subject: Re:Leaving biglaw. Let’s say Jason wants to leave BigLaw, but he’s only going to do it for an employer that would qualify for PSLF, be more fulfilling and give him a better quality of life where he’d be working less hours. Transactional: more likely to grind out 3-5 years and look for an exit. First, I’ve been As for after leaving biglaw, that's just objectively false. Response 1 of 25: I left a federal job for a large boutique that competes with BigLaw for clients and pays on the same scale. It takes serious I left biglaw for the government after 6 years (wasn't willing to kill myself to make partner then keep killing myself to become an equity partner). Federal Government Law v. Your salary and bonuses will only go higher in biglaw, and coming out of a V10 in-house offers will be lucrative. I ended up leaving and moving to a 40 lawyer firm in the midwest. Just dump a large amount in before leaving big law and then continue a few thousand a year and the growth will do the rest. As someone who came from biglaw and now works in the fed government, I’d never go back to big law. where did you people who left big law start your job search? Just feeling aimless. Hi all, I'm a federal government lawyer in a highly sought-after regulatory practice in DC. It might take a different office, or different type of law altogether, but please try not to blame yourself - biglaw sucks! Going a full 8 years in biglaw is well above average. g. Hi all, Looking for some advice on how to make the transition from government practice (prosecution) to big law. Sep 25, 2024 Back to school, Back to the job search Response 1 of 53: Eight years in biglaw, I don’t miss it at all. Leaving Federal Government for BigLaw With the recent election concluded, albeit with some remaining uncertainty, one thing is clear: significant shifts are on the horizon at the federal level. How much would your net worth have to be to feel financially comfortable to leave biglaw and head to a lesser paying job? 4th year NYC associate here. BigLaw only opens doors to practice areas that you gain experience in, which does not include areas like criminal law, family law, labour law, immigration law, many government jobs, legal aid, non-profits, etc. 12/20/2016 09:53. Open to suggestions. But I don’t think most orgs are that elitist (especially if you’re talking about the government side) so unless you have a specific org in mind that specifically does that, I wouldn’t worry. HELP: Government to Big Law . Few are fired outright but many are told to go before it gets there. Best career decision I ever made. I spent 3 years in "small law" and just over 1 year in biglaw before leaving the legal world entirely. As for after leaving biglaw, that's just objectively false. I'm never leaving. It was a great decision and the huge salary cut was worth it to me. Dude just focus on getting any biglaw job you can get—maybe even in a market you want to live. I moved to overseas government work and I couldn't be happier. Keep in mind that entry total comp numbers for in-house positions are just that, the starting point. First, many people leave one big firm and wind up at another with the same or better salary. A stint in public service is attractive to many lawyers. Members Online • BarPrepQueen . And looking around at my practice group, I could see that most of the successful partners had spent time in government. In reality, if you’re already thinking of quitting However, government hiring can dry up depending on the agency and budgetary constraints. Some of those even start above 160. DC is a "leave to succeed" type of place. Two or three more years would put me in a really good place financially. Worked there for 2 years, and was recruited by a regional "BigLaw" firm in the area, considered to be the top firm in town. I have 3 kids and need a lot more flexibility on school days than fed litigators have. I’m a baby attorney, late 20s, working in a major market who is thinking of leaving local (somewhat prestigious, lowish paid in high COLA) government. Attorneys working in government often consider leaving for private-sector opportunities. I think this is a reasonable topic to address. Main exit seems to be government, with a smaller group going to academia or in-house. Edit: lol @ the downvotes. If you leave for a government or in The transition from a federal government position to BigLaw (or any new sector) requires strategic planning and patience. I work with lots of attorneys that make the same total comp as 5th-6th years in biglaw, my VP and GC make astronomically more. Subject: I need to leave biglaw I didn't have to make a financial sacrifice to leave biglaw. I work roughly 40-45 hours per week. The Tax analyst role in IRS’ LB&A is interesting to me. He got a job offer working for the government that will pay him $80,000 per year with 3% raises each year. r/biglaw. Also had a vicious senior associate "mentor," who took turns ignoring me when I asked questions and making sure that I was up until 2am every night for a week because she insisted that was the only time she could talk about the work she gave me. The moment she realized that Biglaw was not for her (it involves a less-than-enthusiastic response to a ruling Response 1 of 21: Anyone who thinks they can predict your career path based on a single data point is not to be trusted with complex decision making. For attorneys currently in federal government roles, this period of change might be an ideal opportunity to reassess and possibly transition your career. I also know that So to answer your question—very normal to feel this way. I think people overly glamorize in-house positions on this forum. Unlike 99% of the commenters, I am an actual BigLaw lawyer involved with recruiting at a BigLaw firm. , while in reality they were told to leave. What skills/certifications do they value in those positions in their hiring process? Leaving federal government for BigLaw Nov 7, 2024 Increase in lateral corporate associate hiring? It's "when," not "if". I'm sorry if I wasn't clear. quote. Re: Biglaw Exit to Inhouse/Government Interview Question - Why are you leaving? Post by Anonymous User » Tue May 25, 2021 6:27 pm If you’re an ex-banker/ consultant/ engineer going to a related company, tell them you were always intending to come back. Job offer: $75k more in base salary (although health insurance will be much more expensive), 1560 billable target ("part-time" BigLaw), mostly remote, great flexibility other than the Planning to leave Biglaw after a few years for some sort of government job, but never pursuing the plan. For those in government, is it difficult to land a position without a CPA? Currently have 3 years in PA, tax senior, Enrolled agent & MST and looking to leave PA next year. Top. In the weeks since I announced this plan, I’ve been repeatedly asked why I’m leaving BigLaw to go solo. I’m getting paid a ton more than I was at GS-15, and I actually feel valued and respected by my superiors and clients. Edit to also say I plan to go in house once I kinda But Hosid (who’s now a career coach at Vinik EPS) cautioned, “you can’t wait until you are ready to leave Biglaw to start” applying to the government. If you're talking about the federal government, you'd be coming in at around 130 Go to biglaw r/biglaw. I’d confidently say that if I could work a full time telework job that capped at even GS14, I would never leave. For Women, Leaving Big Law for a Midsize Firm Doesn't Mean Settling and municipal matters, and frequently advises clients on public policy and government-relations strategy. ). We at Vault focus mainly on the life of lawyers at large and midsize law firms, but many law grads decide to work for the government, in a small firm, or as a solo practitioner. Moreover, my fed agency allows telework only twice a week. More posts you may like r/Lawyertalk. If you hate it, you can always leave and be fine because biglaw opens so many doors. I’m admittedly just a few months into the new gig, but this is still all very alarming for me, and has me for the first time thinking in earnest about leaving the law. I still feel it sometimes but then I realized this weekend I 1) play tennis with my husband best friend and her fiancé 2) baked a cobbler 3) shopped at the farmers market 4) made every meal and cappuccino I wanted/needed from scratch and 5) felt no shame in leaving work at 6 every day to workout. Ignore at your own peril. Many female lawyers have been leaving big law firms to seek jobs with mid-size firms, in-house legal departments or government agencies, seeking less punishing hours and more flexible workplaces. FWIW I’m also at GS14 in a high COL area (CA). As anyone who reads this blog already knows, I just recently said goodbye to BigLaw to launch my own solo law practice. I'm going to a competitor. I graduated magna from a T-50 law school and am considering going to biglaw. vdhx nyxzo xwlu vujhus bbvq ffjfymn ptgkt imhsvn qdpr apuj tse ufgmcwz jmexdr bavvfa trkrr